Killing Joke's Jaz Coleman on Russia, Porn, Transforming "War Impulse" Into Music | Page 3 | Revolver

Killing Joke's Jaz Coleman on Russia, Porn, Transforming "War Impulse" Into Music

Industrial post-punk wild man talks band's current U.S. tour, forthcoming symphonic record, more
killing-joke-simon-sarin-getty.jpg, Simon Sarin / Redferns / Getty
Jaz Coleman performing with Killing Joke, London, 2015
photograph by Simon Sarin / Redferns / Getty

First things first, you can breathe easily — Killing Joke is officially in the United States and have kicked off their U.S. tour in Seattle. The U.K.-based post-punk/industrial/metal trailblazers canceled their last stint of stateside shows in 2016, leaving many to wonder if Jaz Coleman, Geordie Walker, Paul Ferguson and Youth would ever make it back to these shores.

What's more, on the eve of their 40th anniversary as a band, frontman Coleman is as opinionated and driven as ever. He's in the process of re-imagining Killing Joke's canon with the help of Russia's Saint Petersburg State Symphony Orchestra — the results of which are already shaping up to be Coleman's "all-time favorite Killing Joke record" and have helped him realize "the areas that art can touch that politics and diplomacy cannot."

So how does his orchestral work reflect his current state of mind, what arcane alchemical knowledge is he unlocking in Prague and why does he spend half the year in New Zealand with "no shoes on ... surrounded completely by green." We talked to Coleman about all of these things — as well as the joy of being a Luddite in the internet age — below.

YOU'RE CURRENTLY WORKING ON A SYMPHONIC VERSION OF THE KILLING JOKE STUFF WITH THE SAINT PETERSBURG SYMPHONY ORCHESTRA. WHAT ARE THE CHALLENGES THAT YOU FACE WHEN GOING FROM FOUR-PIECE INSTRUMENTATION TO A FULL ORCHESTRA?
JAZ COLEMAN That's the thing I love doing the most. What people don't realize is from the mid Eighties onwards I was studying orchestration and it's one of my big passions — arranging and composing for a symphony orchestra. So things that used to take me weeks and weeks to do, take me literally seconds these days. I basically sit around in cafes and I dream it up. To put it simply, you've got many instruments in an orchestra, but ultimately with any complex system you need to break it down to its simplest components, which generally is about a six-part harmony. Then you have a choice of color, to transmute this into the various colors available to you.

After you've had a lot of experience with orchestras, it's like flying a plane — easier with experience. One of the great things about getting older is being able to orchestrate straightaway instead of having to go through a long process. I can orchestrate immediately and instantaneously. I couldn't do that in my twenties, and it's taken quite a lot of time.

The whole thing is 90 minutes of work and there's no way I'm gonna allow it to be chopped up into two albums, which a record company already tried to fucking do. No, this is one work with a beginning and an end. So, it's a double album kind of thing.

It's huge. The choir is in Sumerian as well — the whole thing is just massive. I've got to say, it is my all-time favorite Killing Joke record. I'd like to do another six of these so-called symphonic Killing Joke things because we've got so much wonderful music that I'd like to orchestrate. It was such a great buzz recording it with Russia's oldest orchestra and of course the whole recording process of recording in Russia — which was wonderful but very, very different. What I am realizing is the areas that art can touch that politics and diplomacy cannot.

YOU GREW UP STUDYING VIOLIN AND PIANO. DID YOUR PASSION FOR CLASSICAL MUSIC AND COMPOSITION, DISSIPATE AS YOU DELVED DEEPER AND DEEPER INTO KILLING JOKE? OR WAS IT A CONSTANT THAT STAYED WITH YOU?
From puberty up to smoking my first joint, I didn't really listen to rock music. But when I was about 14, rock changed my life. I was on a mission once I realized you didn't need exams to be in a band, I literally stopped everything. Basically Killing Joke was formed out of anger. And I'm really glad that personalities like big Paul Ferguson and myself found Killing Joke because we often reflect on what would have happened if we hadn't.

I think that the extreme art form known as Killing Joke gave us a truly effective surrogate for the war impulse because we were very aggressive — intelligent but aggressive — angry young men. There were times in my career when I wondered whether Killing Joke was a force for good or not. It's a powerful energy. I've looked in the space while we're playing to see 2000 people fighting. I've seen these things and it's been sobering at times to the point where you think, What are we doing? Why are we doing this? But ultimately I found it a very powerful, good force that allowed me to sort of channel my negativity. Killing Joke is a bit like a vaccine. You inoculate yourself with a little bit of the sickness of our outside world in order to be immunized from it.

Whereas when I work with a symphony orchestra, my role there is a romantic role. I'm trying to create a more desirable reality — take the listener to a better place. So I didn't just aim to make this symphonic Killing Joke, I chose the songs very carefully to create a gnostic mass.

But all of this is really downplaying the role that Killing Joke had in my life. It's given me absolutely everything. What other bands refer to as a fan club — ours is a global network of amazing people. So I'm very proud of what we've accomplished and I'm so much looking forward to our U.S. tour. That is the biggest shock to you probably is that I'm really looking forward to coming to the states. I don't think I've ever said that, actually. I can tell you categorically I have never said that before. [Laughs] The first time we played the U.S., it was New Year's Eve 1979 or 1980, I think. It's funny. I can almost remember all the concerts really. I just have to look at a date and it conjures all sorts of terrible things.

YOU WERE SAYING HOW YOU FIND KILLING JOKE TO BE DARK AND PAINFUL, BUT YOU FIND THINGS WITH THE PHILHARMONIC TO BE MORE UPLIFTING. I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO LISTEN TO YOUR MUSIC, AND DARK MUSIC IN GENERAL, USE IT FOR PERSONAL CATHARSIS. DO YOU ALSO FIND MAKING, OR PERFORMING, DARK MUSIC CATHARTIC?
Oh, sure I do. Making it. And when you make music with Killing Joke it's always painful. I don't know why it has to be like this and you have to go through all this fucking shit every fucking time. It's always a huge undertaking and you should have no preconceptions going in because it ain't gonna be like that, I can tell you. Same with touring. There's no planning. I have no idea what the setlist is yet. We haven't started arguing, that happens in Seattle.

IN A RECENT VIDEO, YOU SAID THAT THE ORCHESTRAL PROJECT WAS TO "MARK THE CHANGE FROM YOUR FORMER SELF TO YOUR FUTURE SELF." I WAS WONDERING, IS THIS A EUPHEMISM SIGNALING THE END OF YOUR INVOLVEMENT IN KILLING JOKE AND A MOVE TOWARDS SYMPHONIC COMPOSITION?
No, nothing that dramatic. I cannot envision a time when I don't do Killing Joke, but that being said Killing Joke does take a lot out of all of us, especially when we're together. [Laughs] But yeah, I'm afraid you are right in so far as I'm putting my energies into some so other things coming up where I feel like I can do Killing Joke side by side. But I need to do something more positive to make this world a better place. But anyway, actions speak louder than words, so lets see if I survive this fucking tour first. [Laughs]

SO YOU SPEND PART OF YOUR TIME IN NEW ZEALAND ANOTHER PART OF IT IN PRAGUE. WHAT DO YOU FEEL LIKE EACH CITY OFFERS YOU PERSONALLY, SPIRITUALLY OR OTHERWISE?
Prague, well every day you wake up and look at architecture and you just go, "Wow." Everyday. It just got to be one of the most impressive cities. I still ... every single day I revel. I'm amazed at being in Prague. I don't know any other city that makes me feel like this. When I'm not there it's just mountains covered in jungle, where my other home is. And I think those are the two most precious places in the world to me. I love being one or the other.

Prague is also about my study of alchemy, of the Rosicrucian movements. It's an incredibly mysterious city and my study of telluric energies and stuff like this. It's an amazing place to be. For the other parts of the year, I like to have no shoes on and be surrounded completely by green. I'm speaking on the phone to you now but I'm a Luddite when it comes to technology. I don't bother with it. No radio, no TV, no computer, no nothing. Human interaction. Remember that? Our skills with human interaction are not getting better, especially with these younger generations. It's terrible.

SO YOU DON'T HAVE ANY COMPUTERS OR CELL PHONE OR TECHNOLOGY WHATSOEVER. HOW DO YOU ...
How do I function? You mean how do I communicate without the little boxes everyone uses? It drives me fucking mental. Don't even get me started, I'll want to get a flamethrower out and ... don't get me going. It's funny when I see the other members of the band, we're like grumpy old men. "Look, at the generation now!" What the fuck do you expect?

BUT CONVERSELY — AND EVEN YOU SAID IT ABOVE — IF ART GETS TO PLACES THAT POLITICS AND DIPLOMACY CANNOT, AND IF IT'S EASIER TO GET MUSIC VIA THE INTERNET THEN ...
Yeah, but 70 percent of internet traffic is porn! As we speak right now, most of it is young, pimply-spotted males choking the fucking chicken. This is what its wonderful science has brought us! This incredible moment in history.

Well yeah, I do agree that it's probably easier now to make money out of music than when we started. There were 1000 people above you taking a cut. Those motherfuckers, robbing us — crooks and criminals everywhere.

SO KNOWING THAT YOU LIVE IN SOMEWHAT ISOLATION IN NEW ZEALAND, ARE YOU COMFORTABLE WITH THE LEVEL OF STARDOM THAT YOU HAVE?
The thing is it hasn't really be a problem until recent years. Normally when they see me, they cross over the street. [Laughs] But this ridiculous notion of fucking fame ... Everyone needs their picture taken with you for Facebook and all this other crap ... it's all back to these little devices that keep everybody happy. It's annoying. But what I love about Killing Joke is that it's how people come to meet each other — through actual human interaction. When I'm in the supermarket, I don't check out all my own groceries, I like to see the grumpy old cow in the checkout still. I still like human contact, even if it's weird or negative. I'm trying to say that I think the whole idea of artificial intelligence ... I find it fucking creepy.